Fiona Bishop

DOUG MILLER 00:04

So, I'm Doug Miller here in Montreal with the Canadian anti-apartheid activist history project with Fiona Bishop in, I believe, Regina, Saskatchewan. And Fiona is as agreed to be part of the interviews on behalf of the SACTU Solidarity Committee, also present in this interview with Ken Luckhardt and Jane Armstrong in Toronto. So good morning, Fiona, welcome to this enterprise, it's been a lot of fun to meet all the people that are involved, have been involved, and are still showing such an amazing interest and recollection of all things related. I sent you a consent form, I hope you had a chance to read it and you understand where we could be using this for public presentations or for research purposes. It'll be stored and archived and hopefully made accessible through a beautiful website whenever we get managed to get those skills together.

DOUG MILLER

So do you consent to do this interview for us?

FIONA BISHOP

Yes

DOUG MILLER

Thank you so much. Thank you. So Fiona, the first question is, generally just could you give us a little bit of background like where you're from and how you got involved with anti-apartheid or apartheid work or how you learned about it, and also your union background that connected you to SACTU?

FIONA BISHOP 01:31

Okay, well, I was, let's see, I'm from Regina originally, but I was working in Vancouver, and then for years and came back to Regina to go to university. And I think that's where it all started at university. Yeah, finding out, you know, all the social issues and things like that. I was some, I think I belong to SCAR first, the Saskatchewan Coalition Against Racism in the late 70s, perhaps no, I'm sorry, late, early 70s. My dates are a little fuzzy here, early 70s. And then at the university must have heard about, you know, the anti-apartheid movement. I just can't recall because it was all kind of meshed together. At the same time, I was also involved in Saskatchewan Working Women, and I was a childcare activist.

So it was very busy times. But as I was saying to Jane, a few minutes earlier, a lot of it overlapped a lot of the issues, and actually would tie them all together. So when I worked for the government first as researcher and then then got recruited into working for the union, Saskatchewan Government Employees Union. And it was a good connection for all the community work through SCAR because . it just kind of, everything kind of overlapped. So I got involved with the anti-apartheid movement. And I probably through the two Kens, they came across Canada often and we'd meet in small groups. And I learned, I guess on most of it through Ken Luckhardt, who's on the air now and Ken Traynor then came through. Yeah, so that was the start of it all, I believe, is that good enough? I was always searching for guests to you.

And also the equity first, and I formed Indigenous committee was the first one in Canada and I think called fair. And because we have a lot of Indigenous members and staff members, especially up north. And I'd have I'd be the Human Rights staffer as well. And I would bring in Ken and a few others to talk about the issues as we went along. And there was a lot of overlap in the issues between the, say your uranium mining up north and in in Namibia. And so you know, everything kind of overlapped all the issues in the north. Yeah.

DOUG MILLER 04:30

Wow. Fantastic. So the union you were a member of was once again?

FIONA BISHOP 04:36

Well, I was a staff. Well, I was a member for first for Saskatchewan Government Employees Union. Then I was a staffer for SGEU and we were CLC local 41 staff. So actually 41 was very supportive when a lot of these issues would send me to different forums. The union was a little slow to move on these issues. But, you know, they were in the early days were very good. But then I think like across Canada, the Joe guards to kind of go over a lot of the unions and it was more difficult then. Yeah. But especially for them for the work I did on equity issues. So it was, yeah, it was troubling times. Actually, in the 90s, we had this I don't want to go off to, foreign on the top off topic, but in 1990, Leo LaChance, a native trapper, out north was killed in a gun shop owned by white supremacist Aryan Nations up in Prince Albert, and three of the people in the gun shop at the time, were on the executive of the Union. So that kind of gives you a hint of what I was dealing with.

DOUG MILLER 06:02

Wow, that's a huge sweep of history there. That's a lot. Can we go back to the –

FIONA BISHOP 06:08

Sorry.

DOUG MILLER 06:09

Oh no, that's great. That's wonderful. It gives us a good picture of what you were involved in. And wow, what a what a CV there. So you first met the SACTU people when you were already a staffer of the Saskatchewan Government Employees Union?

FIONA BISHOP 06:30

Yes, I believe so. Ken might be able to correct me on that. But I think I was snapping them. Yeah. Yeah.

DOUG MILLER 06:38

Okay. And so do you remember what kind of things you were you were working with the SACTU people on?

FIONA BISHOP 06:48

Oh, yes, well, mostly just getting the head, you know, the education work done on why it was so important to fight apartheid in South Africa. And I can remember taking a lot of resolutions to cut through all the conventions through to my local first to get support at the staff local, and then get it through SGEU, and then the Saskatchewan Federation of Labour, because I was on that Human Rights Committee too.

So yeah, it was a lot of work, education work at that time, to move the issues forward. And then of course, back then, Saskatchewan, the government owned all the liquor stores, they weren't allowed, you know, I mean, hotels, there was some off-sale and stuff. But basically, all the liquor stores in the province were owned by the government. So they were SGEU members. So that was a good in to talk to the I can remember meeting with the, the members of the executive and that of the Liquor Board, associated with the SGEU members and the Liquor Board.

And, you know, going through the whole explanation of well, “if we start picketing out in front, don't take this personally, you know, it's not about you, and we want your support”. And, and so we actually did get their support. And we're, we're able to get, you know, the South African wines and liquors as hot cargo, and they took them all off the shelf. So I don't know where that happened in the rest of the country, but certainly in Saskatchewan, because it was such a, you know, small province, right.

But still, we were able to do the education work and get that done. So that was pretty major. I remember. Ken Traynor talking about that, once again, I'm a little fuzzy on the deets. I remember there was a big conference in Regina, with a lot of South African activists came to Saskatchewan was, trying to think of the title of, a getting something together. Oh, I just can't remember. Anyway, so University brought a lot of people in. And during the break, I can remember, at lunch, we all marched over a couple of blocks away to the front of the liquor store. And you know, we're picketing. And this one fellow who was president of the, of the, of the liquor board employees came out and said, he started yelling at me saying “no BS, it was kind of character yelling at me saying “ g, What are you following me around, you were just at this other liquor store. And now you're here”, and I said, “Hey, you know”, and everybody was a little worried that he was mad, and he was just his character. He wasn't even, I just laughed. I laughed and said, “Oh, you know, you're, you're fine. You know, we're just here for a while, but an hour and we have to go back”. So you know, he met you know, I brought a few of the staff out and they met some of the people that were doing the information picket from, and actually some from South Africa, so it was kind of neat for them to meet them, you know, and they talked about how support you know, thankfully we're for the boy you know, the boycott and yeah, yeah, Anyway, so that was one story.

DOUG MILLER 10:04

Good and, Jane, do you have anything to query here?

JANE ARMSTRONG 10:10

I know, but this is triggering some memories of people that were in involved in Regina. And I think one fellow ended up actually going on to be a reporter with the local Regina CBC station. Anyway, I can't I can see him but I can't remember his name. But I think he was involved in that conference that you're talking about, getting the real story out or something like, quick remember that it was a coalition, weren’t some of the churches involved in Regina?

FIONA BISHOP 10:56

Well, likely yes. And peaceful lander was from South African and so-called coloured group. And he was, you know, very active. He was an excellent speaker. You know, in a lot of the rallies would speak and stuff. Yes. And his, at the time his wife, Helen Campbell was president of the local solidarity committee. And I was kind of the connection to all the unions. And there was a George Manns, who was the editor of Briarpatch magazine. So, he would often put articles, will send their vote, you know, all the issues, which was really good. And I'm just trying, there weren't that many of us really, you know, I mean, there were BLP, a few key people in each of the major unions that were supportive.

KEN TRAYNOR 11:49

Fiona, I can't remember when I first met you. But I do remember one of the first trips I went out to lunch when that's the first connection. And I also want to say the SGEU support for SACTU was always solid. We knew we could come to you, especially you, and ask for it to be broadened. And in that respect, I want to point out that there was a very unique situation in the prairies that didn't happen anywhere else in Canada. I know, four unions got together to work jointly on international issues, SGEU, CUPE, RWDSU, Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, and Grain Services, they put together a coalition of activists from each union leaders and they would work jointly on a particular issue, whether it be Nicaragua, South Africa, whatever. And that was unique. Can you tell us a bit about how that came into being?

FIONA BISHOP 12:48

Yes, actually, we were sort of the, well, in those days the establishment and the unions were pretty right-wing. And the CLC officially didn't support the anti-apartheid struggle because they support the legitimate unions in each country. Right, which definitely wasn't going to be SACTU, which was banned way back. And so there were Yeah, it was RWDSU, it was initials. Yeah. And the Grain Services. So SGEU, RWDSU, Grain Services, and CUPE I can't remember anyways, you write this for you. So the four used to get together and all sort of generally see the progressive issues at the SFL convention, Saskatchewan Federation of Labour conventions, and we would all talk about the issues and we kind of spread things over who was doing what you know, and if we're the resolutions and getting support and all that stuff at our own conventions, as well as the SFL so that's kind of how it started. And then yeah, so I you know, each kind of group took on you know, what are individuals need in this kind of group left the group took on different aspects and the one that was major was, some was in Mozambique, the Mozambique project, right? Yeah. That was a big one. Of course for Nicaragua. Yeah.

JANE ARMSTRONG 14:22

Would that have been where Michael Murphy was involved as well was with Moses?

FIONA BISHOP 14:28

I'm sorry, I don't know that name.

KEN TRAYNOR 14:32

Yeah about one trip? Go ahead.

DOUG MILLER 14:35

Did you get you know, Brian Campion or Don Kossick for that Mozambique?

FIONA BISHOP 14:39

So Don Kossick and his wife, Denise Kouri. Were very close. Yes. We worked on a lot of issues today. Yes.

JANE ARMSTRONG

Right. Yeah.

FIONA BISHOP

So we have connection. Does that mean like, I say it's, it's not that many provinces. So if you were active in something you soon found out everybody else who was, right?

KEN TRAYNOR

The trip I remember most important that was, for me, at least in that those years with the trip to Prince Albert, where I think it was a conference of the biggest or meeting of those unions, and you especially made it possible to meet Ron Bourgeault, was first student of law at that time, and he had done some fairly amazing investigation about the historical connection between the white regime in South Africa back in 1948. Looking at Canada as a source of ideas about how apartheid couldn't be better established in South Africa. Can you tell me, to us your recollection of your connection with Bourgeault?

FIONA BISHOP 15:47

Sure, and it goes back to SCAR again, the Saskatchewan and Coalition Against Racism. We were both on the board. And he was teaching at the university. And I think it was mostly through to SCAR because I used to bring all you guys into all the human rights conferences and, and the SFL conventions. I'm, yeah, SFL and the SGEU conventions to speak right on the issues. And Kossick was very involved in this Mozambique project, right? Yeah, so I'm sorry, what was the question again?

KEN TRAYNOR

Ron Bourgeault.

FIONA BISHOP

Yes, we're on I'm sorry, Ron, of course, slipped my mind for more. Yes. So Ron actually has a lot of published work in in Briarpatch and other magazine, Canadian Dimension on this very issue. And he liked the reserve system in Canada, to what they started in South Africa, right. That's where they got the idea from, unfortunately. And so he has a lot of published work on the issue and is very, very solid on this. So if you ever have a chance to read any of his work, it's some it's really thorough and very good. And he's actually a Métis from up North Battleford.

KEN TRAYNOR 17:09

I made contact and he started this project, I made contact with him. He sent me the materials he had written. So that was very helpful. Yeah, very important for people to appreciate that South Africa had a lot to do with Canada and vice versa.

FIONA BISHOP 17:25

Yes. And not in such a great way. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So he's at CS just actually retired a couple of years ago. And he's still he's still doing a major work on all that the historical issues. He was, you know, a Métis historian, and he was just excellent. Yeah. Yes,

KEN TRAYNOR 17:50

You mentioned the name Bill Robb, does Bill Robb come to mind?

FIONA BISHOP 17:56

Bill Robb was, worked at the time worked for the Saskatchewan International Labour project. So, and he's, he's the one that organized or got the funding for us, about 10 of us, I think, to go to South Africa to meet everybody in 1990. Just it was an exciting time, just when Mandela was released. And we went to the first African National Congress Consultative Conference, the first one since they were unbanned, just met a just heard everybody speak, Mandela opened it up.

And then it was interesting because the, inside the country, the ANC us with Chris Hani were very, very solid and very active. That was just before he was killed. And you know, we met all of them. Yeah, it was amazing. We were just, that happened to come back, a few of us.

Four of us came back from Cape Town into Joburg, just when Oliver Tambo was arriving at the airport. And we had, I was with Sticks, Bafo Sticks Nyango, Bafo. And I was with him and we had to get over the bigger like, we just got off the, off the plane and we knew something was happening. So of course, he checked it out. And we had to jump across these barriers to get you know, with the other Africans to meet Oliver Tambo, and it was just like such a division between the whites and they had the dogs out and everything so of course, because I was white, they left the dogs left me alone but Sticks had to really, you know, work around getting around over into the crowd. And we got in there and all of a sudden there's Peter Mahlangu which language I got up beside it was what's happening, you know? So it was a interesting time. Yeah.

But that's when, I'm, when Sticks got arrested in Port Elizabeth and we had to work really hard to get him out of jail. You know, there was the exiles were supposed to be, it's okay for them to come back in the country at that moment, but it wasn't really so. Yeah, they the South African Police follows us round all the time. They were very obvious. We had to sneak around at night, you know, because, yeah, we had when we went to townships outside of Cape Town, I can remember we had to sneak in at night. It'd be really careful because you know, we're the only whites there were few of us.

And it was some, we met the, it was just before the Consultative Conference and the fellow we met that we signed us up for the ANC membership. I've got my card. Yeah, still got it. Anyway. So he met, I saw him in at the Consultative conference, you know, so it was it just was really quite It was exciting times that part.

KEN TRAYNOR 21:09

But who else was on that delegation?

FIONA BISHOP 21:16

Walter Abberley from Grain Services Union, because they went by arson him and a couple others went to Mozambique. Of course, the follow up in the health and safety project there at the time, and I went with Sticks and Bill Robb and Kevin flat flag flay Terry story. Yeah, sorry. And we went to Cape Town and, and we went to Namibia, I'm sorry, to Namibia. Yeah. So it was, it was a really quite interesting times there to meet everybody. Yeah, I met all. Oliver Tambo, after Sticks was arrested. I went to the ANC office, do want to try and get some help there. And they only let me in because I was visiting a was with Sticks the other day, and I'd signed in, you know, it's very much security stuff happening there. And we went in, they opened the elevator. I think Byers came with me. And Walter. Yeah. And they opened the elevator and there was Oliver Tambo. And Byers still teases me saying that it's the only times you've seen me tongue tied. I couldn't talk. They didn't know who he was. And I just went “Oh, my word”. Yeah. So it was so.

And he actually was very, very aware of the Canadian anti-apartheid network and a support from the activists in Canada. He talked about it actually. I said, we're from Canada, you know, and introduce them said what the problem was Sticks being arrested. So the, he got out, and that was good. Yeah. I don't know why kind of I know, I'm sorry. I'm Oh, no, I'm kind of all over the place. But it's hard to remember everything?

DOUG MILLER 23:03

Well, no, I say it's, it's, of course, given the length of time in between, it's quite normal thought we would be straining for some of this. But at the same time, that was a very pivotal moment in South African history that you were there. So no wonder it left a big impression, because all those people coming together and all those events happening the way they did, it was very, very special, and tender or delicate, or whatever the right word is that too?

FIONA BISHOP

Yes, that too. Yeah, yeah.

DOUG MILLER 23:31

Can we back to the SACTU solidarity and the relations with Saskatchewan? What else? Can you help us recall here?

KEN TRAYNOR 23:39

Well, I remember that support for the strike fund was very substantial. And we have we have found a list of all the unions and locals. Maybe stifling certainly SGEU and CUPE. And, you know, the group of four unions were very supportive. And education works. Yeah. I mean, when you introduced your runway show, he and I went, had a couple of beers at the local pub, it was just great. Those kinds of connections, just don't happen by chance that's knowing that make, you know, requires people to know what they're doing, knows who should know who else we should know.

So that work that we did with you and for unions, I think is amongst the best examples that we can come up with as a country. You know, we always had the CAW and postal workers or some of those things that we did with your groups are quite unique. Well, yeah. And was it, was that project in South Africa ever written up, the SILP project? Do you have any documentation on that? Or was it, was a report when you came back?

FIONA BISHOP 24:43

Yes. Yes, actually, there was. I think Bill Robb would happen.

KEN TRAYNOR 24:47

We are collecting documents as we can. So they might be something that Jane is doing loan retrieval work on that for, I look for because that shows that people we work within the unions were involved beyond just the unions aw During your candidates, they actually want to say that I've participated in events there in 1990, that would be useful.

FIONA BISHOP 25:08

Yes, yes, we have added a few of them that did somewhat that went, you know, the union stamped and they actually weren't. It was too bad that, that somebody like Glen Makahonuk didn't go from CUPE because he was so solid, but he thought he shouldn't send somebody else from CUPE, you know, and the same thing with SGEU. That, yeah, it was unfortunate. I mean, they certainly learned a lot. They were there. But there was only a handful of us that it really, you know, we've done all the work that. Yeah, but you know, it was some, they did fund it and did send it for anyone sent me notice to us. So yeah, yeah. So that was really good. But Bill, Robb would have that final report because it was through the SIL project, international labour program. So that is written up. And we had all kinds of, Kevin needs to take photos all over the place. And, you know, he's got a poster and all that stuff. That's somebody I probably have a copy of. Yeah, there was a lot of –

JANE ARMSTRONG 26:11

We made our first deposit to the Library and Archives Canada last December. And we found, you remember those orange, big orange newsletters, the SACTU newsletters, yeah. We found all of those in both French and English to send original copies to the archives. A fair amount of documentation, because we only began a little over a year ago, deciding that if we didn't do what's going to happen, and that history would be lost, because it's in people's minds. And as we go, so does that history. So that was the impetus for this.

But one of the things we are looking for continuing to look for are what can raised any kind of documentation, even photocopies of it, because you know, these documents may belong to somebody else or somebody else's archive. But also photographs of any, you know, any of the events in front of say, the liquor stores or anything else. We didn't take pictures back then. Now, unfortunately, but we have found about 40 to 50 images so far. And we did deposit a number of posters that we've managed to recover the originals and this small SACTU pins, etc. Oh, yeah. Oh, if you do, if you do uncover in boxes stored in a basement or an attic or something, some photos even to send.

FIONA BISHOP 27:58

Yeah, well, I lost you.

JANE ARMSTRONG 28:01

You know, that not having any, but the archives in particular prefer, you know, original photographs, etc. But they're also deeply interested in this oral history. They were very encouraging when we've sent the first couple. The archivists that we're working with has been extremely supportive of continuing to do the oral histories. Oh, good. I'm so glad that we were able to connect with you. And this has been fascinating.

FIONA BISHOP 28:38

Well, there's so much I'm just, I feel like I'm just scratching the surface of what I remember. I know as students this is overall goal. I should have talked about this or that because it was like I say, it was very busy times. Yeah, we used to, actually our home in Regina was officially called the ANC home. Everybody came through stay there Sticks and Peter and, you know, pretty much everybody because it was sort of a safe place for them to be. Yeah. And we'd have meetings, you know, my place all the time. Everybody would come over. Yeah. So I remember that. Yeah,

KEN TRAYNOR 29:15

I even stayed there myself once. I think I did. Yes, it probably. If you think of more people or you come across anything, make sure you contact so we can add that to our project. You're provoking a number of names in my head. Who was the woman on staff with Grain Services that did a lot of that Southern African work? Pearson, Bonnie Pearson, Bonnie Pierce

FIONA BISHOP 29:44

Bonnie. Yeah, she's in BC now, has been for years. Yeah, I forgot.

KEN TRAYNOR 29:49

The other people we may want to contact from the prairies. Oh, well.

FIONA BISHOP 29:54

I'm sure you've contacted Don Kossick and

DOUG MILLER 29:59

He's on my list I've talked with Mike Murphy though WEFOR, but they weren't part of this union aspect and the SACTU unions aspect has sort of has sort of taken precedence right now. But we've got to get back to all those others.

JANE ARMSTRONG 30:16

And we've connected with Bill Robb. And he was going to try and gather together some of the people who worked on SIL. For September, I can't remember he was booked up with something, some other project. He was working over the summer, but we need to get back in touch with him in September. But yeah, we tried to track down where the documents were from that time in the 1980s.

FIONA BISHOP 30:50

I think, actually Byers that in our office had all the photos that Kevin took on that 1990 labour union tour to South Africa. So I don't I have no idea maybe still in the SFL office. Who knows, you know, there's for photos, it was just he was quite a photographer. Yeah.

JANE ARMSTRONG 31:17

And you guys had a reunion a couple of years ago,

FIONA BISHOP 31:21

Or just last year or something?

JANE ARMSTRONG 31:23

Maybe it was?

FIONA BISHOP 31:25

Yeah, it wasn't too long ago. Yes. And we did a Zoom thing. Yeah. And all caught up on everything. Yeah. Because that was that was pretty big trip. Well, we I think that just because of the timing of it, you know, it was in South Africa. It was very exciting. At that time.

KEN TRAYNOR 31:44

It was the South African professor at the University of Regina. I think he was under Indian South African or so-called coloured South African. Do you recall who that was? I would meet him occasionally at conferences.

FIONA BISHOP

In Regina.

KEN TRAYNOR

Yeah, for sure.

FIONA BISHOP

I'm sorry. It's not coming to me.

KEN TRAYNOR 32:05

He was very supportive, even though it wasn't in the labour movement. He was very supportive.

FIONA BISHOP 32:10

Well, it was a small network, we used to meet your Manitoba and, and Saskatchewan people. There was a fellow, maybe you're talking about, he was in education. Reedy ready. His name was up in, in the, northern Manitoba?

KEN TRAYNOR

Yes.

FIONA BISHOP

Yeah. Anyways, it was. Yeah. It was very busy times I recall. Yeah. But you came several times. I brought you in good night to for human rights conferences and. And SGEU conferences talk about these issues. Yeah. Yeah. And the SACTU, I can remember always the fundraising passing the hat, I'd always get up and say, Oh, nobody could say no, you just get up and say, “Okay, after you speak”, or somebody was, you know, Peter, or Sticks folk, then, you know, we go past the hat for the fundraising issues. And yeah, it was good times. Yeah.

DOUG MILLER 33:13

Wow. Fantastic. Well, Ken, Jane, no? We covered the ground here?

JANE ARMSTRONG 33:20

I think so. Thanks. So and don't hesitate. Fiona, if you know, want to get interviewed again, because she'd be more detail as time goes on. Or Bill Robb may get in touch with you, as well in the fall, kind of group thing at some point to –

KEN TRAYNOR 33:43

think about other people that you think we should be? Because, you know, we don't have a long list in the prairies. And I think we want to show that breadth across the country. So anybody else you can –

JANE ARMSTRONG 33:55

Try tried getting in touch with Barb Byers, I sent her two or three emails in the winter but didn't get a response. I know where she's living now, where she retired over near 25th and Albert, there in that area. And, and I thought I hope she was just busy because, you know, we used to connect periodically over the years. But she certainly was incredibly active over the years.

DOUG MILLER 34:34

Well, with that I feel now I'm going to thank you very much for this. And don't underestimate the how important, I mean even staying at your home is a tremendous reflection of the kind of solidarity that was there for this kind of activity. And the trip to South Africa. I think you were as important to them being there, as it was for you to do got energy from it, that the white South Africa had to know that they stood alone in the world with their racism on that issue. So you were there to be exemplify that for us. So thank you so much.

FIONA BISHOP 35:16

Okay, I'm sorry, just remember, when, when the South African ambassador, Glenn Babb came through, we had a big demonstration at the university, and it was in a journalism department, and they were trying to be objective or whatever. And so, they brought him in, and I can remember we were pounding on the wall. So many of us were pounding on the wall so hard in the, in the, in that room, they were in that he couldn't even speak it was so loud.

But he but also the, the connection with a lot of the Indigenous groups in in, you know, we work very closely through SACTU through SCAR with a lot of Indigenous groups. And, you know, was it always really interesting to make those connections when we bring somebody in, like, it mostly sticks at the time, we'd meet with SCAR, and they were mostly Indigenous people on that? The board and that and they, they were also very, you know, it was just really good learning and all that the connections for especially the Indigenous people who learn what the issues were in South Africa and vice versa. And we had I I'm just trying to remember some forum we had with that. Oh, I’m sorry, I can't think of it right now. But I know that there were a lot of good connections there for you know, broadening the issues. Ron Bourgeault, of course, would be involved in that. And now

KEN TRAYNOR 36:45

Does she live in Regina?

FIONA BISHOP 36:49

Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, he's, I have his, you know, his phone numbers to still keep in contact with him and some of the others making contact with him, too. Yeah. Yes.

KEN TRAYNOR 37:01

Let me think of getting in contact with him.

FIONA BISHOP

He'd be good to speak to Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thanks so much. Good. Good to see you. Yeah. All right. Okay. So

DOUG MILLER 37:12

Thanks again. Yeah. Keep in touch because there's lots more to talk about. I'm sure.

FIONA BISHOP 37:17

I'm sure there is. Yeah.

FIONA BISHOP 37:21

Nice to meet you.

DOUG MILLER

Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

FIONA BISHOP 37:24

You're welcome. Thanks.

DOUG MILLER

I’m just going to turn the record.